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DiehardDIYer last won the day on January 18

DiehardDIYer had the most liked content!

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About DiehardDIYer

  • Rank
    Sr. Member

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Country
    United States
  • Location
  • Drums
    I make my own
  • Cymbals
    Mix Brands

About this Drummer

  • Interests
    God, creation, gardening, home renovation
  • Bio
    Been playing off and on for 50 years. Started making my own drums in '91.
  • Current Band
    Miledge Muzic
  • Previous Bands
    Asaph 91-01, Legend - 1977-79 - Album: From the Fjords

Current kit Specs

  • Current Kit Specs
    I make my own drums. Currently using a 13 pc. set, 6" thru 24" all half toms and kicks. 13" Ironwood segmented shell snare. Cymbals, effects, gong - Paiste, Sabian, UFIP, Wuhan, Zildjian. Electronics - TrapKat, Roland, Alesis, Boss.

What I Like

  • Favorite Drum Brand
  • Favorite Drum Sticks
    Ghost 5B
  • Favorite Drum Heads
  • Favorite Snare
    6.5x13 Ironwood
  • Favorite BD Pedal
  • Single or Double bass
  • Traditional or Matched grip

Recent Profile Visitors

2,870 profile views
  1. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    **************************** You know, I just went back and looked at the Ford/NAMM video. They were at the Sonor booth. I did not realize that until I just paid attention to the lugs. Those are all Sonor drums. For some reason I thought this was something Ford put together with different company drums, based on their experience at the Sonor booth. So, we saw the different materials, and by going to Sonor's site we can see the details and truly, while a couple of the drums are tuned a tad higher or lower, the sounds are the same basic sound. And, am I going to say Sonor does not know how to tune drums? I'm sure heat fluctuation in the building and people playing the new heads caused some changes. How foolish would it be for the Ford guys to make such a video if the drums sounded different from one another in some innovative or special way? If any actual differences are heard, would they be heard when the kits are being played? If I cannot hear a major difference one note at a time, how could it be heard with multiple strokes flying, along with cymbals? So, should I believe hype/super-hype at Sonor's web site about their shells and sound? Why? Then, logically, why would I believe it from any other company; small, medium or large? Yeah. If I never made a video about this, or brought it up, what 40 seconds of 13 strokes does is slay the super-hype like the last dragon standing. Hardware, finishes, warranties, customer service, yeah. Drum shell materials? Not so much.
  2. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    Tuning. I was not aware there is a standard for that. I didn't know there were accepted pitch bends and unacceptable pitch bends or lack thereof. I mean, far be it from me to tell jazzers they don't tune their drums correctly, or people like Derek Roddy that just take the wrinkles out of the heads and they're done. If we have a parameter from companies stating wide tuning range then the pitch of a drum is at the highest level of subjectivity, is it not? There's one thing I know, if the sound of a drum is the shell, there's not a shell on earth that can change out of tune heads, lug to lug. Just another reason I believe the sound of a drum is the heads. People have commented they do not like Attack heads. I do not like Remo, and use them when I must, like on my 9" tom, or the 11 and 17 I'll be making. I have used Evans a lot, as well. I have one Aquarian batter head on a snare. This is highly subjective, too. Needless to say recording techniques can make cardboard boxes sound like drums, literally. There's stuff on yt where it's done. Should we all play cardboard boxes? If someone has the software and will never leave the studio, this subject is totally moot for them. There's nothing you could say to hype a box, though. Software and mics, but, not a box. Man, I mean, bucket drums are still a big thing, and trash cans for drums has exploded. I guess STOMP created that avenue. I also wasn't aware that web site design had anything to do with the quality of drums. There seems to be coupling here in respect to Ford drums. Personally, simple sites like that are, for me, more enjoyable than sites with so many windows and stuff going on it's a distraction. I guess I'm more of a Joe Friday, All we want are the facts, ma'am, type of person. BTW, Spiny, I believe the reason there are no prices on the Ford site is the same as most other companies that sell through dealers. You can order direct but, they address the price subject by way of what Guitar Center or other dealers price point at. As far as "research" conducted by drum companies? If it has to come down to spectrometers and graphs and not what the instrument sounds like when you play it, that seems as obvious as a train wreck testimony against hype and super hype about drum shells. I mean, if company A says their research shows these particular shells accentuate these particular frequencies, and company B just sells Keller shells and both drums sound the same, what's the point? Well, hype. The frequency range of drums is so small. When I see info like that I instantly see hype, something stated because competition is fierce and you have to stand out any way you can. I mean, hype is what it is. There's plenty of it at Ford's site, some of it rather ... well, foolish, if you ask me. "The only luxury drums," or something like that. The statement is just untrue on the face of it. Why state such a thing? Unless there is a definition of "luxury" I am unfamiliar with, it's just weird to say it. The odd thing is, Jay Galen has a pretty big background in advertising. I found it odd he'd use such a phrase. You know, I listen to plywood drums and whatever floats someone's boat I guess but, there are no new innovations in the sound of a plywood drum, or solid wood drums (seeing those were the originals), and the little things that may or may not stick out in various materials used for drums, as far as highs, mids, and lows ... I have yet to hear those differences jump out when a full set is cranked up. Of all the drum shops I have walked into over the years, I just never heard anything that substantiates the hype/super hype in this industry about drum shells. Matter of fact, I'll post the info in another thread but, in my research of company web sites and their claims for shells, I was truly staggered to see EVERY possible thing said about Maple - highs, lows, mids, soft and controllable, bright and powerful, and on and on. So, if all the research of all these companies try to say Maple has this, Birch has that, this wood has this, etc, and yet, collectively they all say Maple is the best wood on earth for drums, whether they realize what they have collectively said or not, why make drums out of anything else? So much for big company research. I'm not impressed. Augie, you said there is no real mention of this subject in the industry. I find it odd, then, that McFly brought it up here. I have seen it on other forums, especially builder forums down through the years, Ford has their thing about it (regardless of what you believe their approach is), and thus far comments at yt seem favorable for my videos. One guy brought up his bottom line - sticks and touch. Each player has one and that makes a difference in what a drum produces in sound, and that is certainly true. For me, Tubie says it all. I could make a full set of those and record with them, or cover them and play with them live and no drummer in the audience would notice. And for the most part, neither would I sitting behind the kit. They'd sound like drums. Good drums. Isn't there a video I saw here of a guy making a snare drum out of one? I made octobans (tube drums) out of them in the 90s. Covered them with rosewood veneer. People that heard them thought they sounded cool, and they did, not much different than those I made out of PVC, or what Tama's sound like. A little softer, and they should. They're compressed paper, for pity's sake. When I strike Tubie and then strike my Maple (I guess I should do that on a video, and when my Q8 comes, I will), I hear two drums. One sounds a little brighter and harder, the other sounds a little softer, but bigger. Well, those are logical observations. Tubie is bigger than my Maple half tom. The Maple is harder than compressed paper. Would there be dramatic differences with two sets of each next to each other? No. I would hear would drums with slightly different personalty and character basically lost when the sets are cranked up along with music. There have been plenty of sound innovations in the keyboard industry. Synths gets more and more incredible. Innovations in plywood drums, or all drums, for that matter? Like what? What considerable innovations have been done with drum shells that produces such different tones as to undo the history of previous drum sound? Nothing I have ever heard. A drum is a drum. Some may gristle at such a statement but, I have yet to hear it proved otherwise. And like I have said all along, just let the companies make videos displaying the differences in the sound of the drums, not the shells. Well, for me, I have said what I can say, I guess. I'll get the stuff going for the bearing edge video and that'll be it.
  3. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    When I was a kid and the word "hype" began to be used it was meant to mean "excitement." An excitement was being created or trying to be created about someone or some thing. Needless to say that is the bottom line of all advertising. I have never said a single word against hype, in its normal definition or usage by anyone in the drum industry. For anyone who has read or watched anything from me on the subject of drum shells and sound, they know that is fact. And I have tried to explain this over and over again, apparently to no avail. What do I call it when a line begins to be crossed and information, not so much in ads but more so in larger areas of information manufacturers provide about their products, we begin to see things that go beyond excitement and into fantasy, falsehood, and nonsense (with other descriptive terms that could be used)? I call it "ultra-hype," "super-hype," and in some cases, "lies," because I believe manufacturers probably know better but, are forced to say more and more outlandish things about their shells to stay competitive. We all know of companies that said things about their products that got them in trouble and they have to change their advertising or information in some way. Anything from toothpaste to weight loss products to herbal remedies to appliances (Ronco comes to mind), and people like Tony Robbins and Mehmet Oz (Dr. Oz). There's a point where hype turned into ultra-hype, could not be proved, and retraction resulted. In Oz's case, a hearing before a congressional sub-committee. What does ultra-hype do? It can make people rich. It can physically, mentally, or emotionally harm people, and anything in between those poles. If nothing else, it always causes friction between people, to a possible point of physical altercation. I could really get into this but, you get the idea. The only reason I have an opinion on this is because of how long I have played and made drums. So, I see things stated by manufacturers and instantly have thought, "That is not true." My own experience denies it. Observation denies it. Physics denies it. Common sense denies it. Everybody here knows the principle of repetition: say something enough, no matter how outlandish, and safeguards people naturally have begin to wane and people begin to believe something that is not true simply because it is pounded away. The easiest example is "fake news." Whatever somebody thinks about Trump, the msm has spent 90-95% of their coverage of him in negative ways. People think a certain way with no more information than "I heard it on the news." And they hear it over and over again. Have I witnessed this kind of thing in the drum manufacturing industry? Yes. A good example of where something can go in is here on page 4. Taking a wood shell and lining the inside with metal, or in logo's case, Kevlar. In some kind of nuanced, subtle way, the sound is no longer wood, nor metal. They cancel each other out and you have "something" in between: a drier, more focused tone. It's not a big difference. Mike calls it diminishing returns. That seems accurate, if I understand the term. Does it create some completely new sonic frequency range for a snare drum? No, of course not. I can simulate the sound almost identically with a thicker, drier batter head. Would I become incredulous and upset if I saw some drum company say that because they added a liner of metal to their wood shells in some special, proprietary, hi-tech engineered way they have produced a snare drum that offers frequency ranges and tuning capabilities, and sonic presence unheard of before? Of course I would. It would be total BS. Super-hype. If they said something like, "Our hybrid wood w/steel liner dries out the sound a little and offers a tone somewhere in between the two, offering drummers a great instrument for recording (add an exclamation point if you want and a quote from an endorser)," would I call foul? Of course not. THAT's the way info on manufactured drums used to be. And old ads show that. Today's info put out be some companies, in my opinion, is ridiculous, and in some cases an outright lie. Do they know they are spreading a falsehood or are they themselves caught up into the world of msm - just keep repeating it over and over until it becomes fact - mantras? I don't know. I can't know. I don't sit in board rooms. I went to all the major company sites and copy and pasted what I consider to be Ultra-hype. I have to edit stuff but, I will post it when I have it ready. You may disagree, you may challenge my understanding, you may think I am making mountains out of mole hills. So be it. McFly brought the subject up again on this forum. I hesitated to enter in. I did. The FORD video inspired me to finally make my own I had planned for a long time, even before the first go-round here. I like this place. I believe there are thinkers here, more than reactors, for the most part. So, I'll keep at it, not to stir the pot in a negative way but, a positive one. If people want to be the most expensive drums on earth, I don't care. I do care when companies tell people these drums are what they are - somehow magically different sounding - because of the shells and the woods used. To that I say - Prove it. Be honest and objective and prove it. Mike, yeah, the Q3 doesn't do as good a job as the Q8. ZOOM is sending me a replacement for the Q8. I do believe the drums sound better recorded with that camera, which makes sense because the mics are better. As far as companies not lining up their drums? Why not? DW has a video where Good thumps a bunch of shells and the tone goes lower and lower. Ooos and ahhs emanate from the drummers gathered. Okay. Now, show me the video with the completed drums, same heads, same hoops, same pitch, same mics, and let us hear what the finished drums sound like and see if all the shell hype/super-hype is true. I really do not believe that is too much to ask, from all the companies, as a common sense service to customers, if they are going to say all the stuff they do about their shells, as though the drum head means nothing, when a shell can't do a thing without a drum head on it. You mentioned fiberglass. I saw a video of a shop owner sitting behind Hal Blaine's fiberglass concert tom set. Concert toms are loud and dry no matter what you do but, those were about the nicest sounding CTs I have ever heard. I believe Fiberglass imparts a coloring to sound waves that is different because it is so thin, yet very hard but, a very different type of density than metal, and certainly not as reflective. The carbon fiber/ kevlar shells do the same. Indeed, playing a jazz trio gig with metal or acrylic shells would be too much, unless you change the heads to control the extra volume. Big band, though, they'd work well. Which is why Buddy liked his Fibes snare. It had projection Slingerland snares didn't have, as he stated it, anyway. And there's a coloring difference I mention, as well as how the sound waves are handled inside the drum and how that relates to feel and rebound. People ask me why I believe snare drums are different. Simply because when you begin to tension heads past the point of their natural tone, like ranges for toms and kicks, you are changing the physics of the sound waves and pressures inside the cylinder and shell material begins to play a more dominant role in what you hear, material to material: density and all. The variations in sound can be large when materials and depths are engaged. The Gretsch vieos of endorsers checking out a big circle of Gretsch snares shows that. Gretsch. THE ONE company in my research that hardly offers any hype about their products, let alone ultra-hype. I found that extremely interesting. That Great Gretsch Sound. Silver paint on the inside. That's about it. Yet, they produced these cool videos of all their snare drums. More power to them. They have also produced videos of their kits compared and even they say the differences are a little of this, and slight that. Thank you Gretsch. Why don't all the companies offer such comparisons of their toms and kicks? I believe the answer is obvious. They can't prove the hype/super-hype. Gretsch doesn't offer any. They only have to compare, not prove anything.
  4. Kolberg's World of Sound

    JAW DROPPING. I can't believe I have never heard of this place.
  5. Kolberg's World of Sound

    These are INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!
  6. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

  7. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    Augie, forgot something. What is my "agenda?" How does anything I have shared about the subject of drum shells and sound benefit me? How does it stir the pot in a negative way? On the other hand, why is stirring the pot a bad thing? It says right on the box in the cooking directions to occasionally stir while cooking. Speaking of food. You said drums are as different to drummers as food is. Interesting point. What makes a salad with lettuce taste the most different? Ice berg, Romaine, Boston, Butter, Frisee? Or, is it the salad dressing? Each of those types of lettuce have slight variations of flavor but, the difference between French, Ranch and Balsamic are "fundamentally" different. I have never said variations of tone are not present in drums made of different materials. I have said those differences basically become lost in full set play, so, the ultra-hype that continues to grow in the industry about drum shells and sound is nonsense, and marketing. If it was all actually so, let them line up their dozen lines and let us hear the differences that warrant the hype. If some "magic" strikes the ears of a player and they choose one brand or one wood or material over another, be inspired, play on. That is subjective. I have tried to be objective with this subject. There is a fundamental difference between Japanese Tamo veneer, silver sparkle, red satin flame, white mother of pearl, and piano black. Between Maple, any Maple, and Birch plywood? Not so much. I believe the sound of a drum is the heads, and the shell colors the physical aspects of striking the head and its relationship to the resonant head. Yes, a drum can be the sum of its parts. No, the sum of its parts do not radically alter the sound. It colors it, in shades. It can enhance the sonic properties of heads in action. This has been my bottom line for more than 20 years. I do not know how other industries and fans address instruments made of wood. Could be much worse than the nonsense in the drum industry. I am saddened to see it in the industry I love. And, I'm not even a part of it, professionally, in any way. You obviously have a difficult time with my opinion of John Goode and his effect on the industry. So be it. I do not bash DW. I do speak plainly about their marketing, which is John Goode's baby. Drum Workshop makes fine instruments. Anybody who denies that is just being foolish and radically prejudiced for some reason. Their marketing is based on what they see as a need. They see a need, they address it, and market for it. That was their philosophy as stated by Lombardi in a MD article from 1992 I found when I found the box of MDs out in the garage. I need to find others. John Goode, imo, is the prince of marketing. To read his explanations of drum design you'd think you were reading the procedures of a brain surgeon. The Drum Whisperer, as Neil Peart calls him. The tree hugger. The father of flitch fantasy. The ancient submerged tree logger. The man is amazing at what he does. NO ONE in the industry comes anywhere near close. He's a marketing genius. I just don't buy his schtick. And until he puts drum, next to drum, next to drum, next to drum, and proves his schtick, easily done in the studios DW has out there, I reject it, based on my own experience and observations. I am not alone, that's for sure. Has DW helped the industry? In some ways, certainly. They took Camco, "The Aristocrat of Drums," and turned it into a company large enough to acquire other companies under their umbrella. Pedal design. Hardware, in general. Have they hurt the industry? I believe so, and have stated the reason why. If someone gave me a set of DW drums, would I turn them away? I may be hard headed but, I am not stupid. Would I expect to hear those drums sound "fundamentally" different or better than anything I have or could make myself? No. Not based on drum shop floors. Personally, if I had the choice, and the money, I'd buy some Tama Bubinga or Koa drums. Actually, if I had the money, I'd buy Heartwood shells and make my own from them. Those I would expect to have a sound that had properties unlike others because of what they are - concentrically cut tree rings out of one tree. That is unique in the industry. Nothing DW does is unique with drum shells. Enough about DW, please. They are who they are, they do what they do. I wish they put a lid on their ultr-hype and maybe the industry would go back to the way it was, as displayed in all those ads.
  8. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    Thanks for that link! Memory lane. I remember many of those ads. Many before my time. Typical marketing of the day, and the catalogs were no different. About the only thing I saw about shells was the Sonor ad with the guy squatting on one. Construction strength, not supposed sonic tone differences. Most of the ads are about drummers playing a brand. Some are about finishes. Some address hardware. I saw none that touted the vital supremacy of proprietary shells in reference to the intricacies of the sound of a drum. And I have to say, the ad with the wife over the husband's knee about to be spanked? Whoah. Try putting that ad in a magazine today.
  9. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    Augie, for me, Ludwig DID cause a sensation with the Speed King because it was, actually, an incredible innovation that "fundamentally" revolutionized the pedal industry and market. The ad is hype, to be sure. Ultra-hype would be - we use a proprietary, space-age metal for the foot board link which will help you play doubles and trips faster, and our dual titanium springs will increase your speed, and our specially designed foot board made from minerals taken from the bottom of the Black Sea .... Speedy, just curious about the Volvo ad. German Techno? Try Swedish Metal, how is that outlandish marketing hype? Am I missing something? Or, is the BOLD print part of a Volvo ad, which seems totally impossible.
  10. Questlove & NBC sued for racial discrimination

    Serious stuff. I wouldn't have expected this given the general atmosphere I've seen on the show. I assume the bass player in the band is "white?" Racist and misogynist. So, the unnamed stagehand told an unsolicited "dirty joke" about a black woman, I guess? Strange story. I hate the subject of "race." I believe there is a human race, that's it. Beyond that is nothing more than elitist social engineering. There are no white people. Everybody is a shade of brown to lesser or greater degree. It's just melanin variation. The actual genetic differences in humans as far as facial features and hair and all is something like 1.2%. Reverse "racism." It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I figure the two camera guys get their jobs back, if they want them.
  11. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    I really want to start another thread but, I should remain consistent with this. Sorry for the distortion. It's less with headphones, I think. The Q8 is on its way back to ZOOM, and the Q3 didn't hold its own. Plus, the drum is pretty loud. Next, Tubie within the rest of the plywood set. Are there "fundamental" differences between them? There certainly should be.
  12. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    I've done that on snare drums. It makes the sound .... harder? Not like metal, though, per se. More dense but, not a lot brighter.
  13. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    I totally agree that placing plies in certain directions can keep the cylinder in round, rigid, and true. That's construction. It's when they get into sound, unique sound, that things reach levels of bombastic barnyard defecation. Right now, to my knowledge, only Jatoba, Koa and Bubinga are exotics placed in major company shells. They're harder than typical traditional woods used for shells. Generally harder on tools to some degree. I guess Kapur would be considered exotic for us in NA. It's kind of like mahogany and used for flooring but, mostly outdoor furniture and decks and outdoor framing structures (it doesn't rot). Brady and some other Australian makers use very hard woods in their shells. Well, Brady got ill and he's no longer in business. I almost got some Blackwood shells from a guy in Australia years ago. It isn't much hard than Maple or Birch, though. The major companies aren't making flitch veneers. They buy them already cut, and then make their shells, those that do. So, they aren't spending money on tool wear. They are spending it on someone elses, though. "Real" maple is generally Hard Rock/Sugar maple. But, you know, it's only because it grows in abundance and its mature size compared to others. Other maples could also be used for wood veneers. Still, yes, people get fanatical about it, when it's foolishness. Most real mahogany comes into America illegally but, it still comes in and gets used for furniture. You can still purchase mahogany veneer, which seems odd seeing you still have to cut the tree down to get it. Why is that legal?
  14. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    LOL You know, Glen, you really should make a simple video of the sound of, say, all your 12" toms. You don't have to say a word. Pitch them the same, set them up, strike each one, walk off camera. I'm confident of what listeners will hear. Even better, get your friend to put his toms into it, as well. I'd pay a dollar to see that. :-) I don't want people to lose sight of my point here. I watched this ad for Cadillac. The hook line was "You can build a car or you can build a Cadillac." Great line. I'm sure they paid plenty for some ad agency to think it up. Does anybody actually take that seriously? I'm going to buy a Cadillac because all other cars are just cars and a Cadillac is something extraordinarily better? That kind of hype is in all industries, including musical instruments. When a company states that this shell recipe, this formulae, this wood ply, combined with that wood ply, cut to these exact thicknesses, glued together with this special glue, running in these directions, producing these frequencies, claims its own sonic place in the universe, conceived by aliens from a galaxy far, far away, and blessed by the Pope, is THE thing to have (and "kids" and people of all ages go for it), when they do not produce a bloody thing until a pair of heads is put on them and then they sound like a drum, not a piano, is something that should be rejected as an embarrassment to the drumming community. That is a far cry from " _________ The only name in Drums" or "You can play drums or you can play ________ ." Slogans are slogans. Falsehood hype is a different thing. The "Californian" was mentioned but, this is an industry wide thing now. I believe the Californian created this situation. I watched it develop over the decades from its inception. Companies became forced to say things about their drums, they never said before, to stay competitive. When the DIY market exploded and saturation of custom/boutique makers made things even more competitive, it forced the major companies to think and do "custom," and things went into overdrive. It's tragic, to me. It's become an industry of carnival barkers. True, there are more choices but, at what price? Honesty and integrity? This thread gave rise to a major drum company lying to both current and perspective customers about their products. True or not, the very fact the subject comes up is incredibly sad. It should not even be a topic of discussion by default of what used to be in this industry. I had a guy comment on yt that just because a company says their shell is made of this or that wood doesn't mean it is. And that is what all the hype has created. Distrust. Suspicion. Sarcasm. Anger displayed in discussions now. At one time, and I'm old enough to remember those times, it was drummers talking about drums in terms of hardware, finishes and cosmetics, favorite snare drums, not shells and bearing edges and all the ultra-hype that has become part of the industry. At one time a drum was a drum, a whole unit. Now, a drum is the almighty shell. At one time you had a favorite drum brand for whatever reason. Today, it's become fanatical and rabid and ugly for way too many people. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of what it has bred.
  15. Drum sound. Let's look at shells.

    Sure. To me though, teens are kids. 20 something's are kids to me. Although, I don't know how many are asking their parents to buy them drums at that point? But, hey, doesn't O Care make the age for living at home and parents caring for their kids, 26?